[Politics] So it begins

"MrSnrub" (sv100) 09/24/2019 at 15:19 • Filed to: None

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My X-type is too a real Jaguar > MrSnrub 09/24/2019 at 15:35

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Yup the Guaranteed re-election of Trump. Jesus just run against him and be sane that’s all it will take, but no the y just can’t help themselves, this will backfire.

7:07 > MrSnrub 09/24/2019 at 15:35

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ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > MrSnrub 09/24/2019 at 15:35

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About fucking time. 

WiscoProud > My X-type is too a real Jaguar 09/24/2019 at 15:37

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I understand what you’re saying, but at a certain point you have to draw a line in the sand. We didn’t do it for child concentration camps or rampant self-serving corruption, but it seems admitting to extorting another country to influence our elections will do it.

The irony is this is very close to what the whole Mueller report was about. Is there any doubt now in people’s mind that he colluded with them? 

CobraJoe > My X-type is too a real Jaguar 09/24/2019 at 15:37

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Just curious, how do you think this will guarantee his re-election?  

Maxima Speed > MrSnrub 09/24/2019 at 15:37

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What the actual.........

facw > My X-type is too a real Jaguar 09/24/2019 at 15:42

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I don’t think this helps him. I do think that continuing to not do this allows him to claim he’s doing nothing wrong. I mean he may claim that anyway, but it’s more plausible if the opposition won’t even challenge him.

MrSnrub > My X-type is too a real Jaguar 09/24/2019 at 15:42

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Making predictions one way or the other is premature at this point. Impeachment hearings may reveal things or sway public opinion in ways that cannot easily be foreseen. If nothing else, it will be entertaining

facw > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 09/24/2019 at 15:42

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Past time.

My X-type is too a real Jaguar > CobraJoe 09/24/2019 at 15:45

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It will energize a base that is not all that happy with him, the rank and file republicans really don’t like him, then you have all the people on the fence because the economy has been good and they really don’t care about much other than that, they see a someone making a mess to the status quo and they sudden;y get interested.

It is the Democrat Equivalents to the evangelical Christians that are pushing this not the ones who actually decide elections.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > facw 09/24/2019 at 15:45

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No shit. As soon as he put his tiny, stumpy  little hand on that Bible, he should have been thrown in prison.

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > WiscoProud 09/24/2019 at 15:45

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I can see an argument where this is worse conduct than the Mueller report. That was the question of an attempt to conspire (or at least not refusing the reach around) of a foreign power in the pursuit of a political office as a private citizen at the time . This appears (so far), to be an attempt to conspire with a foreign government against an American citizen for political gain as the sitting president of the US in their  official capacity.

My X-type is too a real Jaguar > WiscoProud 09/24/2019 at 15:48

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Look it is going to blow back bad on the democrats no matter what the facts are, and remember if they win the presidency their control of congress will be short lived and you reap what you sow. The smarter move is to do nothing and win next November .

WiscoProud > My X-type is too a real Jaguar 09/24/2019 at 15:50

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You can’t “do nothing” though, because he’s only getting more emboldened. He’s to the point where he’s extorting other governments to influence our elections, having the Democratic nominee arrested on trumped up charges isn’t far removed from that. 

WiscoProud > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 09/24/2019 at 15:51

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Exactly. There’s articles out there that Putin helped Trump, partly out his hatred for Hillary. For better or worse, thats a willing helper. Extorting another country isn’t 

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > WiscoProud 09/24/2019 at 16:01

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Yes, and there is a vast difference between acting as a private citizen and acting in the capacity of President.

Granted that I’m just a state university employee, but there are tremendous ethical and legal differences between acting in my personal capacity and when I’m acting in an official capacity on behalf of the state .

Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras > MrSnrub 09/24/2019 at 16:04

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2019 has been wild

2020 is about to be even wilder

ttyymmnn > MrSnrub 09/24/2019 at 16:04

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This is what Congress doing its job looks like. It’s called Checks and Balances, and this has been utterly absent in the last two years. The Republicans love to say, “Elections have consequences.” They do, and this is the consequence of their losing the House. 

fintail > MrSnrub 09/24/2019 at 16:05

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He’ll dodge it as he has dodged everything for the entirety of his goshforsaken life. I can’t find a reason to trust the system on this. And remember what a large orange ball of dung said about doing something on 5th avenue and how (the witless/selfish/spiteful drones) would vote for him anyway, so it probably won’t harm 2020 either - the base already made up its mind.

marshknute > CobraJoe 09/24/2019 at 16:05

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Remember when Republicans impeached Clinton in 98' expecting public outrage over Clinton’s misconduct to propel them to a midterm victory, but instead just alienated voters and resulted in Democrats gaining seats in the House? That’s why.

The majority of Americans don’t support impeachment . Not to mention it requires a supermajority confirmation in the Senate, and Dems don’t even have a simple majority.

And the reason they don’t have a simple majority is because their witch hunt against Kavanaugh backfired on them during the 18' midterms and cost every purple-district Senate D emocrat their reelection .

Democrats are masters at misreading the room and not learning from their mistakes.  

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > WiscoProud 09/24/2019 at 16:06

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Well…even the report pretty much said so itself. Basically said no, we didn’t find a signed agreement where both sides said “yes, I agree to work with you!” but for all intents and purposes the Russians showed a clear preference to swing things in Trump’s direction, and his campaign was willing to knowingly accept that help. It’s immensely frustrating that this isn’t sufficient to take any legal action against.

But then again we’d end up in the same spot with Justice Dept. having a longstanding “policy”, i.e. not a law, but a decision of their own making, that they will not seek charges against a sitting president. So this is exactly where we end up – impeachment is literally the only option available to punish a sitting president.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > My X-type is too a real Jaguar 09/24/2019 at 16:09

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But even when it comes to “winning next November” – this incident is him literally trying to convince a foreign government to start an investigation against his main political rival in the next election. What makes you think he’s willing to let it be a fair contest based on policy positions and morals as a human being?

WiscoProud > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 09/24/2019 at 16:14

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Good point. 

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > ttyymmnn 09/24/2019 at 16:14

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Doing its job, whether it’s the right decision politically or not.

If impeached by the House, he’s very unlikely to be removed by the Senate.

I wonder if this increases the chances of a strong, centrist Republican running as an independent...

ttyymmnn > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/24/2019 at 16:18

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Doing one’s constitutional duty should not be a political question. I agree, it has become that, which is hugely unfortunate. The man has become a despot, above the law, beholden to nobody, scoffing at the rule of law, obstructing justice, and blocking the House from doing its appointed job of investigating the executive. If the House goes for politics over duty, we might as well use the Constitution for toilet paper.

CobraJoe > My X-type is too a real Jaguar 09/24/2019 at 16:19

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I feel like it will energize less republicans than you think. His actions and mannerisms aren’t exactly a secret, and he isn’t universally loved by his own party either. There certainly will be a loud and belligerent group supporting him and trying to spin any negative against him into a positive, but they don’t speak for everyone.

On the flip side, it gives some action to the constant background noise of “He should be impeached”. Gives the democrats the appearance of a backbone, gives some consequences to trump’s actions, forces him to juggle re-election and impeachment and presidential duties all at the same time.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > ttyymmnn 09/24/2019 at 16:20

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I agree, and am glad they’re finally moving forward.

But will we be glad in hindsight if this somehow gives him 4 more years?

ttyymmnn > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/24/2019 at 16:24

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I guess we’ll find out. 

ttyymmnn > CobraJoe 09/24/2019 at 16:29

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Look also at how many Republicans have decided not to run for reelection. Rats leaving a sinking ship.

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > MrSnrub 09/24/2019 at 16:33

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davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > ttyymmnn 09/24/2019 at 16:35

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Latest headline is that Trump has authorized the release of the transcript.

Will be a really bad look if there’s no “there” there (not that there’s not plenty elsewhere) , but hard to believe at this point, with all the reporting we’ve heard so far on this.

facw > marshknute 09/24/2019 at 16:38

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I remember Al Gore “losing” a close election where he was terrified to associate himself with Bill Clinton despite the booming economy.

ttyymmnn > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/24/2019 at 16:39

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He wouldn’t be releasing it if it were incriminating. We shall see.

BigBlock440 > WiscoProud 09/24/2019 at 16:47

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Extorting another country isn’t 

What would you consider withholding $1B in funds until a prosecutor investigating corruption is fired?  

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > ttyymmnn 09/24/2019 at 16:47

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He and Rudy kept going back and forth about whether he did it or not, and if he did do it, it wasn’t illegal. I don’t know.

I do know this: he seems to have had enough dealings with organized crime in his past that he tends to be very vague about how he says things. There’s a way to make your will known without being implicit about what you want, and he seems to know how to skirt that line very well.

Galileo Humpkins (aka MC Clap Yo Handz) > MrSnrub 09/24/2019 at 16:48

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We all know he should’ve been removed via the 25th a long time ago, but the idiots/stooges in his cabinet weren’t gonna do it. Pence knows he’d be a terrible president so he wasn’t gonna do it (he’s a nutjob conservative who was most likely going to lose re-election in Indiana of all places as I recall). So, I guess this is something .

I don’t think it’s going to turn out well for those of us anti/never-Trumpers, but we shall see. It’s possible (though not plausible) that there are enough conservatives that would support impeachment, so long as it was brought up by someone else, and with strong enough evidence (which there is) to nearly guarantee he gets the boot, that they wouldn’t face the ire of Trump should he prevail and if/when he gets reelected. Again, we shall see.

BigBlock440 > ttyymmnn 09/24/2019 at 16:49

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It’s called Checks and Balances, and this has been utterly absent in the last two years   decades

Galileo Humpkins (aka MC Clap Yo Handz) > fintail 09/24/2019 at 16:52

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You know, when he said that, I thought, “What the literal fuck? They’d do something.” Now, after 3+ years of Trump the politician/president, I honestly don’t think they’d do a damn thing if he followed through on that. I just don’t understand how he keeps deflecting any responsibility and consequences. I mean maybe, just maybe , we’ve reached a point where all his bullshit will finally catch up to him to some degree. I’m not holding my breath at all though.

CobraJoe > marshknute 09/24/2019 at 16:57

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I feel like this is a slightly different situation than Clinton.

There has been talk about Trump being impeached before he took office, and Pelosi has made statements about her decisions about impeaching Trump 2 years ago. Clinton’s trial seemed to happen fairly quickly in comparison, and during his 2nd term instead of his first.

Then there’s the subject matter of the transgression. It could be reasoned that Clinton may be a scumbag, but he could still provide appropriate leadership for the country. It’s a bit harder to take that stance when Trump is pretty consistently being accused of compromising national security.

And while I highly doubt that there would be enough votes to remove trump from office, it would pretty clearly define who amongst the republicans are not willing to follow Trump’s leadership, depending on how solid and public the evidence is.

As for votes for the house and the senate, I think it’s hard to tell too. Avoiding impeachment while trump gets bolder with his actions either implicitly says that he’s not in the wrong, or it shows a lack of a backbone, both of which aren’t great reasons to vote democrat in the upcoming election.  

WiscoProud > BigBlock440 09/24/2019 at 17:02

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Considering the investigation was closed well before the funds were introduced, and the prosecutor was widely considered to be corrupt by international and local authorities, no, i wouldn’t consider it to be extortion. 

ttyymmnn > BigBlock440 09/24/2019 at 17:21

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Thanks.

ttyymmnn > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/24/2019 at 17:22

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Rudy is a f**king train wreck. 

Future next gen S2000 owner > WiscoProud 09/24/2019 at 17:23

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Collusion isn’t a well defined as to what is illegal. Obstruction on the other hand......

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > My X-type is too a real Jaguar 09/24/2019 at 17:28

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If you’re implying “Bill Clinton got impeached but still got re-elected. So the same thing will happen with Trump”... I think that might be a bit of a stretch.

I think the shit Trump has done and continues to do is far worse than the drag from a toke and/or the blowjob Bill Clinton got impeached over.

There is simply no comparison to the degree of how much worse the impeachable stuff Trump has done compared to Clinton.

The Republicans are just sore losers over Bill Clinton getting re-elected in spite of their best faux-moralizing efforts.

If Trump gets impeached, he probably won’t get booted from office because of the Republican control of the Senate.  But that’s no guarantee that he will automatically have the next election in the bag.

For Sweden > MrSnrub 09/24/2019 at 17:41

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With President Pence in charge, Americans can finally use Indycar as a force for diplomacy.

The world wants, nay, demands open-wheeled racing at Rockingham

marshknute > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 09/24/2019 at 17:52

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Clinton was impeached 2 years after his reelection.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > marshknute 09/24/2019 at 18:00

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Minor detail.

fintail > Galileo Humpkins (aka MC Clap Yo Handz) 09/24/2019 at 18:13

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You were more optimistic than I.  The rabidness of the cult has scared me a bit - I don’t know what would be the line for them.  

Galileo Humpkins (aka MC Clap Yo Handz) > fintail 09/24/2019 at 18:23

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Hindsight and all, at this point I see there pretty much never was and most likely will never be a line.

fintail > Galileo Humpkins (aka MC Clap Yo Handz) 09/24/2019 at 20:53

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That’s exactly how I see it.  He can do no wrong.

f86sabre > For Sweden 09/24/2019 at 21:36

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Wasn’t Rockingham shut down a year or two ago? They would need to make Great Britain great again  first.

pip bip - choose Corrour > MrSnrub 09/25/2019 at 04:01

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how long before he tweets “witch hunt”

a week?

ttyymmnn > f86sabre 09/25/2019 at 13:19

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MGBGA!!